I think the 'heavy grinders' you refer to are fake pros. Do they wear stringy. I learnt ABC tag from online training sites like deucescracked cars runners. Simulations and projections that pokerSnowie may attempt to solve. Dec 18, 2013 - Is deucescracked.com +ev for micro stakes players? So I learned about poker snowie and decided to play 6max with him, I actually. Noone really has any clue how to play the vast majority of hands in a GTO fashion.
The big sign on our home page says it all: it's the end of the PokerCoach free trial, and the perfect time to reflect on what has happened over the past couple of months. Rollercoaster ride.
The least we can say is it's been a thrilling ride. On June 3rd, we decided to make PokerCoach available for everyone to test for free.
While PokerSnowie - the brain behind PokerCoach - had been thoroughly tested under controlled circumstances, we had little idea over how the wider poker community would react once it was unleashed to the world. We seeded PokerCoach with the help of our friends at pokernet.dk, but the word quickly spread beyond the enthusiastic Danish poker community. Without any further marketing activity, the most popular forums and discussion sites started covering the arrival of PokerSnowie - intense and fascinating conversations emerged on Deuces Cracked, Run It One, The Hendon Mob, TwoPlusTwo, Leggo Poker and PokerStrategy amongst many others. Traffic to our site exploded once we made it onto social news site. So what's been the result of this flurry of activity? We've had in excess of 25,000 players look at PokerCoach and received countless testimonials from players telling us how PokerCoach is exactly the tool they were waiting for to improve their game. “PokerCoach has certainly plugged many leaks I had, it has enabled me to move my game to a much higher level and also I am now multi-tabling 12 speed tables at a time as decisions are now so easy/quick to make due to confidence in my ranges learned from PokerCoach.
I also find it so easy now to spot when other players are playing sub-optimally, and thus exploit their glaring weaknesses. Overall, PokerCoach has allowed me to balance my ranges on all streets, which in turn is obviously the most +EV. Basically after many, many years of studying the math and theory of optimal play which had resulted in small edges for me at best, along comes PokerCoach, and suddenly all the missing links, and gaps in knowledge I had been looking for for so long were filled. All I can say is thank you, It does exactly what it says on the tin!” Mike M., UK The postings on the forums have been positive and negative, but always passionate - we've observed, and addressed a on this blog. We've reached out to pros and had them challenge PokerSnowie through PokerTrainer, our yet-to-be-released GTO training app. While we can't get into all the details, it's safe to say the pros were surprised and enthusiastic about how PokerSnowie plays. Ariston has even of 'beating' Snowie (yeah, right!) on this blog.
Beyond pros, the response from the wider community of players who tried PokerCoach has been nothing less than astonishing. We gauged reaction through a series of surveys, and 90% of you told us you'd continue to use PokerCoach beyond the trial period. No, that's not a typo, and we are humbled by your enthusiastic response! The free trial is over but the release version of PokerCoach is right around the corner. You won't have long to wait, and that's a promise.
It should not be negative. It should not be positive either, nor even. It just depends (or should depend) on your opponents style of play.
If everybody at your table played only AA then your strategy should be open raising 100% of hands and folding everytime he plays back. Then your red line will be very positive, and the blue line would be even. If for example everybody 3bets all-in preflop everytime you open raise with 100% range, then your strategy should be to open-raise/call only premium hands, and therefore your red line would be zero and your blue one very positive. The only important one at the end of the day is the green one (and the EV). You just have to worry if the red/blue line is way too negative.
Remember there is not just one way to play this game, texas hold'em hasn't been solved yet Cheers! I have pretty horrific winrates (lossrates) in the 'facing bet on flop/turn/river' filter. How can i fix this as it's obviously something I'm going to be facing a lot.
I know I sometimes take hands too far and spewcall river bets which I obviously shouldn't do, anything else? Its normal that you lose/win less in this spot since you are facing agression, you should filter these hands and analyze them one by one to see if you are folding too much. Maybe you are betting always for value and everytime you check you have air.
Consider check/raising very strong hands and semibluffs against aggressive villains in good boards for example. It should not be negative.
It should not be positive either, nor even. It just depends (or should depend) on your opponents style of play. If everybody at your table played only AA then your strategy should be open raising 100% of hands and folding everytime he plays back. Then your red line will be very positive, and the blue line would be even. If for example everybody 3bets all-in preflop everytime you open raise with 100% range, then your strategy should be to open-raise/call only premium hands, and therefore your red line would be zero and your blue one very positive. The only important one at the end of the day is the green one (and the EV).
You just have to worry if the red/blue line is way too negative. Remember there is not just one way to play this game, texas hold'em hasn't been solved yet Cheers! Sipox Thanks I was just concerned because I've seen graphs where as the green line increases the red line decreases in proportion.
I have one very big question. Well, two really. I'd really like a good answer because I feel like quitting poker already with the experiences I'm having. Is there a way I can measure my skill?
I watched lots of low limit DC videos before playing for real money, I thought I understood all the major concepts of poker so I started playing.01/.02 intending to clean up and I feel betrayed because the advice didn't seem to work at all. For example I stuck to the button religiously opening 52% compared with 6% under the gun, I knew what flop textures to bet etc. I trusted in the concepts I learned even as I was relentlessly bleeding money. My final results as of today show negative $20 with my biggest losses by far being from the button. I can't seem take down whales with 90/0.
Now I'm aware of variance but having just started and being down 10 buy ins so quickly does make me think. (although HM did show they were often calling down with nothing and hitting on the river time and time again) So I learned about poker snowie and decided to play 6max with him, I actually thrashed those bots starting with $100 and reaching $450+ but I did then fall down a little. It's funny, I really really wanted to win online (just end one day in green!) and loose to snowie (to give me confidence that I can learn from him) but I don't know, maybe I've just been really really unlucky in everything poker so far. Anyway he still evaluated me as an intermediate with lots of errors. Can I learn from snowie? Can snowy be used as a measure of skill? I'm not assuming he's GTO, don't get mad I'm not.
I don't want to talk about that. I just need him to be competent that's all. As long as he is competent enough to beat low stakes then that would be acceptable criteria as I could then still use him as a form of measurement. As you can see I feel a bit lost and looking for some form of measurement to use to improve and feel more confident in the face of variance. Hi all, I'm new.
This was the tourney thing for Isildur heads up 50k chance. For this hand, would you have called with JJ? Bear in mind there had been a lot of shoving and I figured the big stack could have a range of hands.
Ignoring the QQ, I'm the favourite heads up but would you have just folded if you're deep in a tournament? Lastly do you use software that can advise on this in game? I use HM2 but it doesn't give pot odds for Full Tilt.
Full Tilt, (3,000/6,000 blinds, 750 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 7 Players Powered By - The Ultimate Suite. Thanks I was just concerned because I've seen graphs where as the green line increases the red line decreases in proportion. I have one very big question. Well, two really. I'd really like a good answer because I feel like quitting poker already with the experiences I'm having. Is there a way I can measure my skill? I watched lots of low limit DC videos before playing for real money, I thought I understood all the major concepts of poker so I started playing.01/.02 intending to clean up and I feel betrayed because the advice didn't seem to work at all.
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For example I stuck to the button religiously opening 52% compared with 6% under the gun, I knew what flop textures to bet etc. I trusted in the concepts I learned even as I was relentlessly bleeding money. My final results as of today show negative $20 with my biggest losses by far being from the button.
I can't seem take down whales with 90/0. Now I'm aware of variance but having just started and being down 10 buy ins so quickly does make me think. (although HM did show they were often calling down with nothing and hitting on the river time and time again) So I learned about poker snowie and decided to play 6max with him, I actually thrashed those bots starting with $100 and reaching $450+ but I did then fall down a little. It's funny, I really really wanted to win online (just end one day in green!) and loose to snowie (to give me confidence that I can learn from him) but I don't know, maybe I've just been really really unlucky in everything poker so far. Anyway he still evaluated me as an intermediate with lots of errors.
Can I learn from snowie? Can snowy be used as a measure of skill? I'm not assuming he's GTO, don't get mad I'm not. I don't want to talk about that. I just need him to be competent that's all. As long as he is competent enough to beat low stakes then that would be acceptable criteria as I could then still use him as a form of measurement.
As you can see I feel a bit lost and looking for some form of measurement to use to improve and feel more confident in the face of variance. There are no better ways to measure your skill than your winrate over a big sample (100k hand minimum for 6max) I don't know about these DC videos, but you should post here these hands where you 'felt betrayed'. It's quite likely there are things you are doing wrong - I really don't know much about pokersnowie but I think it could barely beat nl2 as it doesn't even understand any exploitative strategy (would get eaten by the rake). And they don't seem to have any proof to back up the supposed strength of their program. BTW I just downloaded the trial to see what it looks like and it put me at advanced/expert level while I'm clearly a fish, so I wouldn't count on its skill measurement capacities. The blunder analysis is also utter crap as it will recommend folding two overcards to a fishy flop minbet, folding AQ to a 10bb pf shove, folding a fullhouse to a fish's raise, etc. You have to understand that pokersnowie aims at developing a near GTO approach based on massive sample size.
The idea is honourable and interesting but completely useless for improving or assessing your game. It's also filled with misleading or false marketing statement which make it fall in the scam software category. Hi all, I'm new. This was the tourney thing for Isildur heads up 50k chance. For this hand, would you have called with JJ?
Bear in mind there had been a lot of shoving and I figured the big stack could have a range of hands. Ignoring the QQ, I'm the favourite heads up but would you have just folded if you're deep in a tournament? Lastly do you use software that can advise on this in game? I use HM2 but it doesn't give pot odds for Full Tilt. Full Tilt, (3,000/6,000 blinds, 750 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 7 Players Powered By - The Ultimate Suite. There are no better ways to measure your skill than your winrate over a big sample (100k hand minimum for 6max) I don't know about these DC videos, but you should post here these hands where you 'felt betrayed'.
It's quite likely there are things you are doing wrong - I really don't know much about pokersnowie but I think it could barely beat nl2 as it doesn't even understand any exploitative strategy (would get eaten by the rake). And they don't seem to have any proof to back up the supposed strength of their program. BTW I just downloaded the trial to see what it looks like and it put me at advanced/expert level while I'm clearly a fish, so I wouldn't count on its skill measurement capacities. The blunder analysis is also utter crap as it will recommend folding two overcards to a fishy flop minbet, folding AQ to a 10bb pf shove, folding a fullhouse to a fish's raise, etc. You have to understand that pokersnowie aims at developing a near GTO approach based on massive sample size. The idea is honourable and interesting but completely useless for improving or assessing your game. It's also filled with misleading or false marketing statement which make it fall in the scam software category.
Yes snowie does make strange recommendations, apparently I was supposed to check an over pair of QQ on the turn with low un-connected community cards. I thought this was a simple case of value betting and I don't want to give them a free A or K. But I just assumed I must be wrong. I have realized that without reasons given, snowie (even if he was always right) won't be much help. So with that in mind snowie can't be much use anyway.
I am however still impressed with his play vs jungleman, I saw the video and snowie came up with few errors during their game and those were the plays that he was unsure of which leads me to give it credit for being competent. If it was completely idiotic it would have called out lots of contested errors but that wasn't the case, it was very in-line with the thinking of the professional. Though 6max is so much more complex, but I can't really fault the logic of how neural networks converge on a solution. Also, snowy is a coward. He folds a lot to any sort of pressure. Did you notice this?
He nearly always folded to my 3-bets, and I ended up doing more 3-bets to exploit him. It really didn't feel like he was unexploitable at all.
So one last question. Is there an archive of hands in one place on the net with the reasons for each play from a respected authority? I just have a few examples from books and of course I browse the forums here. I'm wondering if there was a goldmine I'm missing. Yes snowie does make strange recommendations, apparently I was supposed to check an over pair of QQ on the turn with low un-connected community cards. I thought this was a simple case of value betting and I don't want to give them a free A or K.
But I just assumed I must be wrong. I have realized that without reasons given, snowie (even if he was always right) won't be much help. So with that in mind snowie can't be much use anyway. Well, don't ever listen to what snowie has to say. You'd better post your hands here or ask a competent poker player. Quote: I am however still impressed with his play vs jungleman, I saw the video and snowie came up with few errors during their game and those were the plays that he was unsure of which leads me to give it credit for being competent.
If it was completely idiotic it would have called out lots of contested errors but that wasn't the case, it was very in-line with the thinking of the professional. Though 6max is so much more complex, but I can't really fault the logic of how neural networks converge on a solution.
I couldn't find much info on this match vs jungleman, but I think it only involved 1.5k hands (and jungleman was up 3BI anyway). The pokersnowie team shamelessly recorded every hand where jungleman was surprised by what snowie had to make it look like jungleman was outplayed. We'd have a much less biased answer if jungleman gave his advice on the subject. Quote: Also, snowy is a coward. He folds a lot to any sort of pressure. Did you notice this?
He nearly always folded to my 3-bets, and I ended up doing more 3-bets to exploit him. It really didn't feel like he was unexploitable at all. Like I said in the pokersnowie thread, I played a few hundred hands against the software and I agree with you. Snowie is massively exploitable as, like most bots, it doesn't recognize bluffs. As long as you play every hand with initiative and have the most basic understanding of board texture you will probably be able to crush him at insanely high lolwinrate (200bb/100) thanks to you redline. Quote: so one last question. Is there an archive of hands in one place on the net with the reasons for each play from a respected authority?
I just have a few examples from books and of course I browse the forums here. I'm wondering if there was a goldmine I'm missing. No, and such an archive database is probably not possible in any near future for two reasons: - The way you should play a hand is very dependent on the stakes you play at. Noone really has any clue how to play the vast majority of hands in a GTO fashion. We are nowhere near GTO and are just playing exploitative strategies that could often be reversely exploited. To play a hand properly, you have to take into account your opponent's stats and history. You will notice that when you see a good hand analysis people often have different advices vs different players.
Ok you've convinced me to focus on player tendencies rather than some complete framework. I guess it's easy to look at new tech like snowie and get entranced in it. I have noticed that I have a lot more data on people now and I have dropped TPTK on the flop and even AK preflop (OOP) once because of stats. I can't be sure without seeing their cards but I do feel I've avoided a lot of bad situations.
Edit oh and do you have a good source that identifies the different player types and ways to play against them? I think I'll focus on that now. Read the 3rd post for a start (and read the whole guide if you haven't yet). For something more advanced, rather than generic player types, you should identify stats leak. I don't have any specific link to provide, but you should learn all the main stats (VPIP, PFR, AF, steal, fold to steal, 3b%, fold to 3bet%, cbet, fold to cbet.), what they mean and how to exploit someone who gets out of line with them. This is sometimes tricky as: - You need a good number of hands for certain stats to converge - You often need multiple stats and some showdown samples to clearly identify a leak - Good player will adjust to you and play a bit differently from their stats.
Did I make the correct move to shove with QQ here? I know if he's reraising my raise and we both have high stacks that he probably has AA, KK, QQ, AK. Assume he has AK, theres a 60% chance an A or K will come. I should have just called right? Full Tilt, (60/120 blinds) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 9 Players Powered By - The Ultimate Suite.